Forex social network – not just a buzzword anymore

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Forex social networks which were first introduced to us by the likes of Currensee back in 2009 no longer just have the cool factor alone, they’re actually something useful and business worthy. The forex social market is growing at an astonishing pace (most of the networks have not been made public yet) and just like retail forex made it into the mainstream it would be hard to visualize forex trading two years from now without a social aspect. Currensee, myfxbook, fxstat and countless number of others have already made the first foray into this market but I imagine new, more mature and business oriented wave banking on the success and failures of the first wave, is on the way. Etoro’s openbook is a new attempt at this market (though there’s much work left to do).

Much has been said about forex social networks but the main drivers are the general success of social and quasi-social networks such as Facebook and Twitter, the availability of new technologies and general understanding of brokers that their promises of fast execution and low spreads won’t cut it anymore. A new generation of internet users (and traders) cannot imagine internet without the social aspect – note that forexfactory is by far the largest forex website despite its lackluster graphic design with its huge community of addicted forex traders willing to discuss anything and everything with their peers. Just imagine forexfactory with sleek design and social features and many current social network developers will shiver.

Smart and avid entrepreneurs (and retail forex brokers are very much such) realize the immense potential in capturing new clients this way while reducing the costs of retaining the current clientele. The new forex trader is more educated and experienced than the same trader 3 years ago (at least in the Western hemisphere). Current trader first of all Google’s the broker, then participates in relevant discussions and only then makes an attempt to beat the market (and of course still fails). The number of banner clicking and immediately depositing and subsequently losing all their money suckers is on the rise as well. The average broker now understands that it may be more profitable to have a long term relationship with their clients than continuously spend immense amounts of marketing dollars on capturing new clients time and time again. Social network is an exceptional relationship tool helping brokers create trust relationship with their clients while increasing their own volume and reducing the price of capturing new clients. New clients are drawn to other traders who can prove consistent results through trustworthy metrics – any novice trader may choose to ‘follow’ another trader if he can monitor his activity and socially relate to that person (a true to life picture is another trust building feature).

It is beyond any doubt that forex asset management is next thing in forex and will become a significant growth driver over the coming years. While it’s hard to believe that hedge funds and more institutional type trading parties will alter the way they trade it is quite obvious that typical retail forex asset managers will see forex social networks as a fantastic marketing tool. I believe that what was once a successful market of EA providers who promised unbelievable returns if you only bought their EA for $149 but almost always failed to deliver any results is going to crash. Asset managers will trade their own funds and will be objectively measured over time by brokers/software providers (credibility in this case is a critical component which must be addressed by brokers looking to succeed in the social market). If there’s no way that an asset manager tricked the rating system then there is no reason why a trader won’t place some of his funds with several asset managers to diversify his portfolio.

It’s enough to read Currensee’s latest press release announcing that Varengold Bank FX will offer a portfolio of successful Trade Leaders to its clients to understand that the market is already moving in this direction.

I won’t be surprised if the likes of Tradency, Collective2 and Zulutrade will introduce their own versions of social networks in the coming years as they already have a client base and brand name in the market and the only game now is on creating a sufficiently attractive social network and business model.

Key factors brokers/social network developers must take into account are:

  • Credibility – how exactly do you measure traders’ returns. Is it demo or live accounts? How do you validate all of this over time as traders adapt?
  • Real money – do traders trade real money and if so how much? Some may choose to place minimum levels of own traded funds and then maximum levels of ‘followed’ funds.
  • Platform stability – how stable is the social platform?
  • Execution – are there any glitches in executing trades? It’s not easy to replicate trades even with one broker not to mention few. Pip here and pip there may mean completely different results for followers.
  • Business model – how does the broker/asset manager/social network provider profit from trades and volume? Is it fully transparent to all parties? If an asset manager profits from volume for instance that is a huge warning sign.
  • GUI and design – how easy it is to navigate within the platform and to ‘follow’ trades? How attractive is the design? Remember MySpace? Me neither.
  • How do you market the platform – marketing a social network is an uncharted territory and I suspect most of those who’ll try this with conventional banners/Google marketing will fail.
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26 Comments on this post

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  1. Yohay said:

    Quite an interesting vision, and you’ve raised important questions. I also think that forex social networks will have a bigger role in 2011.

    December 28th, 2010 at 10:54 am
  2. Jim Hunt said:

    Hi Michael,

    Whilst forex social networks may well be (or become) a fantastic marketing tool, it’s far from obvious (to me at least) how they will be of benefit to the average retail forex trader. $149 EAs don’t teach you how to trade, and neither do forex social networks (again IMHO!). Following the herd isn’t often hugely profitable. Usually quite the reverse.

    You seem to be suggesting that learning how to allocate your assets will prove to be a more profitable endeavour than learning how to trade has been, for the majority of people at least. Your first five bullet points (and some others you make too) should certainly be taken into account by all those newbie asset allocators, as well as by brokers and developers!

    Happy New Year,

    Jim

    December 28th, 2010 at 11:16 am
  3. Hugh said:

    Thanks for this succinct post, on the ball as always. Socially generated transparency is undoubtedly needed at this stage and will hopefully continue to level the playing field as the industry evolves.

    December 28th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
  4. Asaf said:

    Michael,

    This is a very interesting post and I think captures in an accurate way the purpose and progress of the forex social networks.

    Few things I’d like to add from the point of view of someone building such a network:

    1) The key thing IMO to success in this is transparency. Transparency works both ways obviously but it’s crucial to educate traders on the likelihood of success in the business using real facts and the expected returns from successful trader. I hope that anyone who think that it’s possible to double his money every month can see the real proof in these networks and see the real returns of traders.
    2) Filtering out the noise – this market used to be filled, like you said, with people promising high returns for only $149, educators with a website full of gold coins falling from the sky etc. These people are now being forced to show their performance on real environment like Currensee, myfxbook, fxstat etc. and I have to say that to this date I haven’t seen any of these people able to demonstrate profitable trading system so I am happy we managed to help clean this market a little.

    There is still a lot to be done in order to improve the transparency in this market and I hope to see the existing forex social networks continue to improve and enable the support of trusted communication between real traders.

    @Jim – To answer your question about how Forex social networks will help traders become better:
    1) Set realistic expectations for traders regarding how much money they can make and how many really are good at this.
    2) Filter out people posing as educators promising high returns
    3) Enable traders that realize they are either not good traders or don’t have the time to invest in trading the ability to invest their money with successful traders and take advantage of this market without actually trading it.

    December 28th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
  5. Jim Hunt said:

    Morning Asaf,

    At the moment there is a Tradency ad visible just above my original comment. Tradency are currently running a competition for strategy providers. It has lasted 3 months and the $10,000 first prize goes to
    “The strategy provider[s] who earn the highest total of pips during the competition”. Does any of that sound at all familiar?

    How many of Currensee’s “Trade Leaders” have a transparent track record “proving” they made money for their followers before, during and after (if we are yet after it) the “credit crunch”? How do you transparently measure that sort of stuff?

    Can you point me to a forex social network where these issues are being discussed at the moment?

    Thanks in anticipation,

    Jim

    December 30th, 2010 at 7:26 am
  6. Alex I. said:

    Interesting article, the social aspect on forex really seems to be gaining momentum, it’ll be interesting to see where we go in a few years.

    December 30th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
  7. Asaf said:

    Jim,

    I can’t really comment about tradency but we don’t do competitions and we don’t select trade leader based on how many pips they made. We select Trade leaders based on their risk management and overall gains in their real account with real money. There is one broke who is running a competition at this moment targeted for Trade Leaders but the winners would be put on test by us until we get the proof they manage risk in an acceptable way.

    As for the Transparency in Currensee – all the performance we show is real account performance and we only show equity (closed and open P&L) meaning that no one can hide losing trades.

    We cannot control investor profitability because some of them cannot stomach the volatility and jump between Trade Leaders all the time.

    I’d be more than happy to give you a demo of the product and answer any questions you might have.

    – Asaf.

    January 4th, 2011 at 10:50 am
  8. Jim Hunt said:

    Happy New Year Asaf,

    I’m happy to hear that Currensee don’t do competitions, even though Tradency and some brokers do. Thanks too for your offer of a demo, but I do indeed have some preliminary questions. I note that you haven’t answered the ones that I already asked yet, so here they are again:

    1. How many of Currensee’s “Trade Leaders” have a transparent track record “proving” they made money for their followers before, during and after (if we are yet after it) the “credit crunch”?

    2. How do you transparently measure that sort of stuff?

    3. Can you point me to a forex social network where these issues are being discussed at the moment?

    Thanks once more,

    Jim

    January 6th, 2011 at 11:31 am
  9. Asaf said:

    Happy new year.

    Here are the answers based on my understanding of the questions

    1) The only thing we show at this point is what was the Trade Leaders own performance in their live accounts – some have been trading for a long time but we only show the performance that we can validate. We don’t trust what they’re telling us about their past life. The Trade Leaders program was launched at the end of October 2010 and so far we’re experiencing good correlation between what the trade leader make or lose and what the investors make or lose.

    1.a) I am not an economist but I don’t believe the credit crunch is over or even close to over.

    2) We measure their performance by getting their account credentials and obtaining trade information directly from their broker. We measure their open P&L as well as closed P&L to make sure they are not hiding losses. We also measure [internally at this point] the correlation that investors get to the trading of the trade leaders. I have to admit that we have stopped working with a few successful trade leaders that we couldn’t properly follow them – this happened to trade leaders that either trade the news or go for a very small gain of 1-3 pips per trade.

    3) I don’t know of any social network discussing these things.

    Hope that helps.

    – Asaf.

    January 6th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
  10. Jim Hunt said:

    Thanks Asaf,

    1. A 2 month track record then?

    1.a) I’m not an economist either, but I agree with you.

    2. Given your answer to 1 it seems like it’s going to be impossible for Currensee to get a handle on the sort of “stuff” I was referring to. Not for another 10 years or so at least.

    3. Me neither. I wonder why that is?

    Cheers,

    Jim

    January 7th, 2011 at 5:40 am
  11. Adil Siddiqui said:

    i think the social networkers should be wary of regulations as the NFA had already addressed this

    January 7th, 2011 at 6:29 am
  12. Michael Greenberg said:

    you got better solution than theirs Jim?

    January 7th, 2011 at 8:58 am
  13. Jim Hunt said:

    Hi Michael,

    I believe so. I gave up letting other people mess with my money years ago, and nothing I’ve yet seen or heard from Currensee has persuaded me to reverse that decision.

    These days I trade my own account.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    January 7th, 2011 at 9:53 am
  14. Asaf said:

    Jim,

    If this is the case our service is not for you.

    We are about creating transparency in this market for individuals that either don’t have the time or the capabilities to trade for themselves and there are a lot more people like that than people than can successfully trade for themselves.

    – Asaf.

    January 7th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
  15. Jim Hunt said:

    Morning Asaf,

    Quite so. Presumably Currensee would like the “leaders” of your service to be able to “successfully trade for themselves” before letting any of your service users follow them?

    I’m afraid it’s very far from obvious to me why such a successful trader would want to sign up as a Currensee “Trade Leader”. Your website suggests one could “realize a new revenue stream”. Apart from numerous other issues, that poses the perennial question. Why would a successful trader need a new revenue stream? In addition why would they want to risk their existing revenue stream by “transparently” revealing how they generate it?

    Cheers,

    Jim

    January 10th, 2011 at 8:46 am
  16. Tomas said:

    Hi Jim,

    For the cleaver investor it all comes down to risk- and money management. No matter how successful you are as a trader you will always need to revise your risk management and spread your portfolio onto several markets or traders.

    We at Traderslounge always advice our clients to spread their portfolio to several markets like stocks or real-estate, which actually means that several of our clients has made it through the financial crisis without losing all, or even part of, their liquid assets.

    As for your last question on why a successful trader would want to risk their existing revenue stream by revealing how they generate it? It is quite simple, the last 20 years we have been in the market with completely transparent trades, the amount of clients that has come to us because they have seen that we know what we are talking about, has been far larger than clients who wished to trade themselves based on our trading.

    It takes discipline and patience to start trading, even if you are following others ideas .

    January 11th, 2011 at 6:27 am
  17. Asaf said:

    Jim,

    This is not presumably – we actually do a lot of due diligence on the trade leaders and their trading style and are only picking the ones with the low risk and consistent returns.

    Being a successful traders does not mean that you can make a living out of just trading. Even if you made 100% a year you would still need to have a $100K account in order to generate $100K in the year and most traders don’t have access to this capital.

    Being a good traders also doesn’t mean that you are good at raising capital something that we as a company are very good at.

    So the value proposition to the Trade leaders is very simple – do what you do today on your own private account, we would find you investors, and you would get paid from the success of these investors.

    – Asaf.

    January 11th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
  18. Jim Hunt said:

    @Tomas – So as I suggested back on December 28th, the majority of people would be better off learning how to allocate their assets instead of learning how to trade? Getting back to the original topic of this thread for a moment, unfortunately it seems as though forex social networks don’t teach people how to do that.

    @Asaf – So Currensee’s mission in life is to bring together competent but underfunded traders who are no good at marketing (and who don’t mind some leakage of their secret sauce) with investors who are no good at trading, but do know how to allocate their assets?

    Cheers,

    Jim

    January 12th, 2011 at 9:11 am
  19. Michael Greenberg said:

    Jim, I guess you represent two different approaches yet it seems that you are convinced that your approach is the right one, or at least that Currensee’s is the wrong one. This discussion leads nowhere except being some kind of a personal debate.
    Instead of picking a fight with people who genuinely invest money and effort in trying to bring transparency to the market (it’s not done in one day or one year) why don’t you let them work and see where this takes them/the market and if you have the kind of rage that I see here why don’t you point it at the real villains in the market – the forex brokers?

    January 12th, 2011 at 10:07 am
  20. Jim Hunt said:

    Hi Michael,

    I’m not enraged, and I’m not trying to pick a fight. My apologies if I give that impression. From where I’m sat I’m merely asking what seem to me to be pertinent questions.

    If I put my “investor” hat on I’d love to see lots of transparency, although with a considerably longer track record than 2 or 3 months. As you say, Rome wasn’t built in a day.

    If instead I put my “trader” hat on however, I’m not anywhere near so keen on total transparency, though a much longer track record still sounds like a good idea.

    With either hat on I’m still not terribly impressed with “forex industry” educational materials on how to go about allocating ones financial assets, and I’m still not awfully keen on following the herd either!

    Cheers,

    Jim

    January 12th, 2011 at 11:39 am
  21. Michael Greenberg said:

    Well, then think of a solution instead of thinking of problems ;)

    January 12th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
  22. Asaf said:

    Jim,

    We have Trade Leaders with more than a year of proven performance and in fact we only have 2 trade leaders at this point with performance of less than 7 month and both of them have longer performance on their other accounts.

    Back to the social network – the purpose of what we do is not to improve the trading of the individual traders but to make their experience more efficient meaning that they could quickly know who to trust and who’s advice to listen to. As oppose to forums and blogs of the so called educators, the ones that compete in every possible trading competition awaiting their luck to shine on them and be able to win such competition we are offering a solution for people that want to collaborate with one another, exchange ideas and collectively analyze the market – this is not going to make them a better trader by itself but it will reduce their learning time and make their trading experience more efficient.

    – Asaf.

    January 12th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
  23. Jim Hunt said:

    Morning Asaf,

    As luck would have it we’ve been conducting an experiment in total transparency here at the Trading Gurus. I wonder if you would mind taking a look at the following two month plus track record, and letting me know what Currensee’s metrics make of it.

    http://www.myfxbook.com/members/TradingGurus/ray-random-robot-alpari-uk/61895

    If that track record does meet your criteria I’d like to propose that Ray the Random Robot becomes your newest Trade Leader. Ray has entered a few trading contests recently, and he hasn’t won any of them, so I feel sure he satisfies that criterion at least!

    What do you reckon?

    Jim

    January 14th, 2011 at 7:12 am
  24. Asaf said:

    Jim,

    We would be more than happy to have you as a trade leader but our guidelines are simple – you have to use a real account which is linked to Currensee so we can verify the performance for at least 3 months of history.

    We do grab all historical data if this is an MT4 account so if you do have an account which you trade for real money then please link it to currensee so we can take a look and work with you to get you on board as a trade leader.

    – Asaf.

    January 14th, 2011 at 10:50 am
  25. Jim Hunt said:

    Hi Asaf,

    I wasn’t offering myself as a potential Trade Leader. I’ve already touched on some of my personal reservations in that regard. I was merely taking the liberty of offering Ray’s services in that capacity.

    From what you’ve said so far I don’t think you’d be very impressed with the performance of his real money MT4 account however. He had the heat turned up too high, and hence suffered too big a drawdown for your liking, I feel sure. However the heat setting on the demo account I linked to seems to me to fit in quite nicely with the sort of numbers you sound as though you’re looking for.

    In the interests of transparency I was hoping that we might be able to use Ray’s myfxbook metrics as a basis for discussing in greater detail the sort of numbers Currensee would like their Trade Leaders to deliver.

    We do seem to be gradually drifting further and further away from the original topic of this conversation though. Perhaps we might continue this conversation in a more appropriate venue? Ray’s very own forum for example?

    Cheers,

    Jim

    January 14th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
  26. Asaf said:

    Jim,

    We are drifting further and I wish I could help you more but our baseline to initiate the discussion is 3 months of performance on a real account verifiable by us anything less than that is not going to even spur and interest.

    There are plenty of signal selling sites that will happily accept demo performance and I think your system would be more suitable for these sites.

    – Asaf.

    January 14th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
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